Curse

Jaigoda · Dec 19, 2007, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Alright, before I get into this, I want to say that I do not frequent the Warrior forums, so I don't know if this build's already out there, but I wanted to post it and see peoples' reactions. And if you think it's a crap build, please comment on it, but I do not want this thread to become a flame war. With that said, I bring you my Hundred Chilling Blades build!

[skill]Hundred Blades[/skill]
[skill]Standing Slash[/skill]
[skill]Whirlwind Attack[/skill]
[skill]Sun and Moon Slash[/skill]
[skill]Flail[/skill]
[skill]Rush[/skill]
[skill]"Save Yourselves!"[/skill]
[skill]Conjure Frost[/skill]

You need an Icy sword for the build to work. Otherwise, equipment is pretty much the generic stuff. The build utilizes the Warrior's AoE and multi-hit attacks with Conjure frost to put out some very nice dps. Mostly self-explanitory, but I'd like to mention that it's best to use Standing Slash between the other attacks so you get the most out of the big adren boosts (i.e. HB > SS > WA > SS > S&MS > autoattack > SS). Also, Rush should only be used as a cancel stance (fairly obvious, but I thought I'd mention it).

Variants:
Of course, you can change Conjure Frost for either Conjure Lightning or Conjure Flame if you have a Shocking/Fiery mod on your weapon. Just remember that some monsters have defenses/immunities against fire. Also, you can replace Rush with another skill (Final Thrust works well) if you know that the foes in the area do not move around much, or have a slower running speed. You could also replace both Rush and Standing Slash for Sever Artery and Gash. You could also replace "Save Yourselves!" with another skill if you don't have an Allegiance rank ("For Great Justice!" would work well, though you'd have to watch your energy). The main core of the build is the Conjure, an IAS (Increased Attack Speed), and Hundred Blades, Sun and Moon Slash, and Whirlwind Attack.

Damage:
With a an attack speed of one attack per .8778 seconds, or ~1.14 attacks per second, and an average damage of ~20 at 14 Swordsmanship, you'll be dealing ~22.5 DPS from autoattacks alone, before Conjure. Add in a 15% damage modifier, and you have ~26 DPS. With Conjure, your autoattack DPS increases to more than 40. Below are the amounts of damage each attack skill does:
Hundred Blades = ~75.5 damage to target foe and all adjacent foes to that foe
Whirlwind Attack at 6 SS Rank = ~52 damage to all adjacent foes
Sun and Moon Slash = ~75.5 damage damage to target foe
Standing Slash = ~76 damage to target foe

Pros
Excellent damage
Good defense (through the warrior's base 80AL alone)
Excellent utility (through "Save Yourselves!" your allies with be taking 1/5th damage from non-armor-ignoring attacks)
AoE attacks
Fairly flexible

Cons
No self heal
Cannot use IAS if foe moves around
Easily countered by enchantment/stance removal and anti-melee hexes

BIG IMPORTANT EDIT: This is PvE... That's all.

Arkantos · Dec 19, 2007, 05:14 PM // 17:14

If you want AoE, just go triple chop/cyclone axe/whirlwind attack. Hundred blades just....well, sucks.

Replace hundred with dslash, replace whirlwind with FGJ and you have a good build.

Jaigoda · Dec 19, 2007, 05:20 PM // 17:20

But HB is the core of the build. The AoE double-attack is what makes it so powerful, Triple Chop can't do that (less damage, slower recharge, other axe skills suck, you can't use both Cyclone and Triple without lots of e-management), and neither can DSlash (no AoE, though I would admit that DSlash is probably a bit better than this, just from the fact it can compress your bar).

The.D0pefish · Dec 19, 2007, 05:33 PM // 17:33

well i like this build...
i'm not even sure if you need a cancel stance in PvE

i like hb: good for adrenaline, good dmg and the best about it: SWORD-ATTACK!!! xD
All in all it looks good but Rezz ftw ;P

Jaigoda · Dec 19, 2007, 05:47 PM // 17:47

IMO, the only res's useful in PvE are Rebirth (for a party wipe, and you managed to get away; a warrior should have tried to stay back and hold the aggro while another runs away) and Death Pact Signet (the downside isn't that bad in PvE, just tell 'em to stay back), both of which are unavailable to this build, cause you need /Mo or /Rt secondary. To me, the Warriors (and the monks too) should not be ressing, and they should be focusing on what they do well. It should be the necros, eles, paragons, channeling rits, and in some cases, rangers, who should be ressing. Warrior's just aren't built well for it.

Arkantos · Dec 19, 2007, 05:59 PM // 17:59

The actual damage from HB is crap. Even if you manage to hit a lot of enemies, HB is inferior to triple chop.

Yichi · Dec 19, 2007, 06:06 PM // 18:06

It has hundred blades....

umm....

trying.....

nope, nothing

Jaigoda · Dec 19, 2007, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

The actual damage from HB is crap. Even if you manage to hit a lot of enemies, HB is inferior to triple chop.

You're forgetting Conjure Frost. Yes, alone, it's inferior to Triple Chop, but with Conjure, you're adding 30 damage from that alone (a bit less than TC's +damage), plus you have two hits of about 17-18 damage. And also, it recharges faster, and Swordmanship has much better attack skills for pressure than Axe Mastery. IMO, TC can't stand up to HB+Conjure.

Hey, and also, I found an arguement against DSlash. While HB+Conjure and DS+FGJ have similar damage and adren gain, HB has AoE, and DS is spammable, but it also decreases in efficiency once FGJ expires. Now, my build takes both HB's and DS's shortcomings and remedies them. The build is very spammable, has little downtime, has AoE, excellent E-management, great damage, etc. And it's downsides (mainly that it's easily countered by anti-melee, and stance/enchant removal) are common in almost all melee builds. DSlash's only really big advantage is the ability to bring more utility, but really, the best utility in PvE is a dead mob.

Arkantos · Dec 19, 2007, 08:35 PM // 20:35

HB adds no damage. Seeing as lots of PvE monsters have high armor, you won't be doing much damage, even with conjure. With TC, you get unconditional +damage. Add conjure and you're doing more damage then HB. The major difference is on a TC warrior if conjure gets removed you're still doing damage, on your warrior if conjure gets removed you're pretty much next to useless.

I don't see how you can compare this build with dslash. A dslash bar can have FGJ up 30/45 seconds, keep +100 armor to all his allies almost indefinitely, and can keep a foe knocked down until it's dead. Spammable attack, perma knockdown and +100 armor to every player in the party (except you) is much more then what your build has to offer.

Why do you think nobody runs hundred blades? Not because it's underrated or because everyone wants to run dslash on a sword warrior, it's because it's a bad elite. The skill was good back when it wasn't an elite, but as an elite it's a wasted slot.

If you want aoe, use aoe and nothing else. If you want single target dps, use single target dps and nothing else. Running both aoe and single target dps is doing nothing but gimping you.

Crom The Pale · Dec 20, 2007, 12:34 AM // 00:34

If your going to run Hundred blades I would sugest using [skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill] as it does far more damage then conjures.

Hundred Blades is not a damage skill, its a means of building up adrenaline quickly if you can manage to strike multiple foes at once.

When striking any less than 3 foes at a time its just weak and a waste of time.

Jaigoda · Dec 20, 2007, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

HB adds no damage. Seeing as lots of PvE monsters have high armor, you won't be doing much damage, even with conjure. With TC, you get unconditional +damage. Add conjure and you're doing more damage then HB. The major difference is on a TC warrior if conjure gets removed you're still doing damage, on your warrior if conjure gets removed you're pretty much next to useless.

Yes, TC is about par with HB in damage (HB might be lower against higher-AL), but HB is far better in building adren, and the attribute's aren't even comparable pressure-wise (in Swordsmanship's favor). Yes, this build can be argued against with DS, but TC (in a build similar to this) can not compare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

I don't see how you can compare this build with dslash. A dslash bar can have FGJ up 30/45 seconds, keep +100 armor to all his allies almost indefinitely, and can keep a foe knocked down until it's dead. Spammable attack, perma knockdown and +100 armor to every player in the party (except you) is much more then what your build has to offer.

But one third of the time your a bit more than half of your normal effectiveness. I guess I'm just one of those people who hate to twiddle their thumbs, so I want a constantly attacking build that has no downtime, like this one. It's only downtime at all is between S&MS and the third Standing Slash, where you have to attack a few times to keep up your attacks (and then you're back into the normal swing), and even then you've still got 40 DPS in that time. And also, my build has all of those you mentioned above, besides the perma-KD (two-thirds of the time...), but it also has AoE, which is godmode in PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Why do you think nobody runs hundred blades? Not because it's underrated or because everyone wants to run dslash on a sword warrior, it's because it's a bad elite. The skill was good back when it wasn't an elite, but as an elite it's a wasted slot.

I don't disagree that Hundred Blades is bad on it's own. But combine it with a Conjure and use it as an adren charge, and you have a powerful skill.

Savio · Dec 20, 2007, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

HB is far better in building adren

FGJ and DS are infinitely better for adrenaline gain.

Quote:

the attribute's aren't even comparable pressure-wise (in Swordsmanship's favor). Yes, this build can be argued against with DS, but TC (in a build similar to this) can not compare.

Pressure-wise, axes do better unless you're using DS. Slapping random sword skills on a bar doesn't make a pressure build.

Quote:

But one third of the time your a bit more than half of your normal effectiveness.

Actually, if you have DS and Brawling, you're effective pretty much all of the time. Arkantos is being dumb.

Quote:

I don't disagree that Hundred Blades is bad on it's own. But combine it with a Conjure and use it as an adren charge, and you have a powerful skill.

Any warrior gets better with a conjure, HB doesn't stand to gain much more. HB is crappy for adrenaline gain compared to your alternatives.

Arkantos · Dec 20, 2007, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Quote:

Yes, TC is about par with HB in damage (HB might be lower against higher-AL), but HB is far better in building adren, and the attribute's aren't even comparable pressure-wise (in Swordsmanship's favor). Yes, this build can be argued against with DS, but TC (in a build similar to this) can not compare.

It's actually not comparable in damage. On a TC warrior you have a +38-42 damage 10s recharge aoe, a +11-13 damage 4s recharge aoe, and a +5-20 arenaline aoe. On your bar you have a +0 damage aoe which hits twice 8s recharge aoe and a +5-20 adrenaline aoe. Since HB gives you no extra damage and TC as an extra aoe attack, I think it's quite obvious that TC is superior. Sure it can't compare pressure wise, because a TC build is an aoe build, but for pressure your build is still bad.

Quote:

But one third of the time your a bit more than half of your normal effectiveness. I guess I'm just one of those people who hate to twiddle their thumbs, so I want a constantly attacking build that has no downtime, like this one. It's only downtime at all is between S&MS and the third Standing Slash, where you have to attack a few times to keep up your attacks (and then you're back into the normal swing), and even then you've still got 40 DPS in that time. And also, my build has all of those you mentioned above, besides the perma-KD (two-thirds of the time...), but it also has AoE, which is godmode in PvE.

In that 30 seconds the mob will most likely be dead unless your in an elite area and some places in HM. Even if the battle is longer then 30 seconds, in that 30 seconds a dslash bar would have done more then what your bar has to offer. A dslash bar will do more then 40dps with ot without FGJ up. Also, aoe is hardly godmode in pve compared to SY, a +100 armor party wide buff which makes it quite impossible for your team to die.

Quote:

I don't disagree that Hundred Blades is bad on it's own. But combine it with a Conjure and use it as an adren charge, and you have a powerful skill.

You can combine any warrior attack with conjure and it's more powerful. Conjure doesn't make HB a powerful skill, it makes it slightly more powerful. It still doesn't make the skill good.

Quote:

Actually, if you have DS and Brawling, you're effective pretty much all of the time. Arkantos is being dumb.

I never said you aren't going to be effective without FGJ?

iridescentfyre · Dec 20, 2007, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

And also, my build has all of those you mentioned above, besides the perma-KD (two-thirds of the time...), but it also has AoE, which is godmode in PvE.

Even with the "downtime" while you await "FGJ!" to recharge, the damage output is still many orders of magnitude higher than your build. Dragon Slash has a rather large portion of armor-ignoring damage, that you're spamming on the target once every .8778 seconds. It takes more than just a 15-second downtime to outweigh that... and its not like you're standing around doing nothing in that time, either.

Your build is okay, its not really a flawed concept or anything.. its just ineffective compared to what the potential for a warrior is. AoE is not as important for a warrior to have in PvE as everyone seems to think it is. Give the AoE to the Eles who specialize in and make the most of it. You can kill targets fast and efficiently and move on, all the while buffing your whole party with shouts.

thor thunder · Dec 20, 2007, 01:44 PM // 13:44

/Agree TC = better aoe dmg
but one thing you guys forget is that HB only effects targets dirrectly in front of you (unless im wrong) but it seems that way and conjure applys 2 times due to the double attack. Even against high armor targets i still hit for 10-20 dmg x2 + conjure X2 sounds pretty hefty but nothing new i was useing this back in grade school.

Coolquest · Dec 20, 2007, 02:46 PM // 14:46

If your gonna use hundred blades you'd be better off using something like glyph of lesser energy - conjure flame - mark of rodgort (Part of my build), with those skills hundred blades ignites the person and does fire damage. Of course you could use conjure lightning and shimmer mark, which works quite well against meleers.

A Leprechaun · Dec 20, 2007, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Yes DS + FGJ! is better than HB for adrenaline gain. But its not that much better, and less reliable than HB + FGJ! You only have to hit 3 foes with HB to gain 12 (12!) adrenaline, ok so its not as spamable, but for adrenaline gain at least you will always get a lot of adrenaline every 8 seconds, rather than your DS getting blocked and you having to wait ages to recharge it.
I'm not saying HB is better than DS but I hate all the hate it gets, sure its ame on its own, but put on some damage/ adrenaline gain buffs and your laughing.

~A Leprechaun~

Arkantos · Dec 20, 2007, 05:00 PM // 17:00

HB+FGJ you need to hit 3 foes to get 12 adren, which is overkill. With dslash+FGJ you need to hit 1 foe to get 10 adrenaline (if you're running 14), which is enough to charge any adrenaline skill you have. The only difference is dslash requires an initial 10 adrenaline, which makes HB better in the short run. In the long run, dslash is superior.

HB is still quite lame with conjure/FGJ. The fact that it's horrible as an elite skill is why it's lame with anything you add to it.

A Leprechaun · Dec 20, 2007, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

HB+FGJ you need to hit 3 foes to get 12 adren, which is overkill. With dslash+FGJ you need to hit 1 foe to get 10 adrenaline (if you're running 14), which is enough to charge any adrenaline skill you have. The only difference is dslash requires an initial 10 adrenaline, which makes HB better in the short run. In the long run, dslash is superior.

HB is still quite lame with conjure/FGJ. The fact that it's horrible as an elite skill is why it's lame with anything you add to it.

How long does it take you to kill mobs in PvE? I'd rater have full adrenaline skills straight away and get into it rather than wait to charge adrenaline then start to spam D-Slash only for the small mob to be dead after a few cycles. I realise that D-Slash is better, but HB is far, far, far better than people always seem to say.

~A Leprechaun~

Arkantos · Dec 20, 2007, 05:20 PM // 17:20

The initial 10 adrenaline does not take a long time to get. Enraging charge -> run in -> FGJ -> hit target. Theres 8 adrenaline. Use flail, 3 attacks and theres your 10 adrenaline. Once you have that 10 adrenaline you're a beast. I'd rather wait a few seconds and then start owning shit then start immediately with poor damage.

HB is not better then what people say. If you want to go aoe go with a triple chop build, that way you're actually doing damage.